Hey team, welcome to another episode of Brasa Masterclass. This episode is with somebody that’s very inspirational. Her name is Whitney Burns, I met her at the end of 2021. She has a husband, she has two kids, she has a senior ranking role within a multi-billion dollar industry, being that real estate, which is very competitive, very demanding. She has enough time to train and run marathons. She’s a great individual, and I think you can learn a lot from her, not just lessons for your career, but how to manage just everything in your life. I know that I just listed off many things that she has to manage that I don’t have responsibilities for. She’s somebody that I can learn from also. Let’s get into it with Whitney Burns. As always, if there’s somebody that you want me to try to interview, send names our way, I will do my very best to dig deep in my network to be able to interview them, so that you can have these lessons and grow yourself. That is what Brasa Masterclass is for. Let’s get into this episode with Whitney Burns.

Whitney, I’ve done your intro before this, so we don’t have to go through that. I know whenever I’m introduced, and it’s a long introduction, you just sit there and look around awkwardly. I’m not going to put you through that. I could go on with your bio. I’ve done my research, and it is impressive. When I think of my team, I reached out to you because of everything that I learned. I’m going to start with something really high level, and then we’re going to go deeper. There’s a husband in your life, there’s two young kids, there’s a demanding career. It is a big organization with a lot of responsibilities and a big title. Then there’s time to run a marathon, and a train for said marathon, and then there’s friends I’m sure, and more.

How do you do it? I will tell you, after I was thinking of your career and all the responsibilities you have, I was like, “I have it easy. I don’t have two kids.” I’m very much doing these videos for the team, but I’m also doing it for myself. Start anywhere. How do you make your whole life function, considering that you have dependents, and a husband that needs attention, and health, and everything?

I used to hate this phrase, but it is really true, everyone really does have the same 24 hours in a day. I think where I’m able to squeeze a lot in is that I use a lot of hours. I don’t sleep a lot, which I don’t recommend, but I think it’s like-

How many hours would you say, on average?

Five.

Okay.

Not bad, but we’re not getting to eight anytime soon, which is fine. For example, I don’t wake up super early. I watch all these shows and podcasts, and all these successful people are like, “I wake up so early. I beat the sun up,” and I’m like, “That ain’t me.” I’m totally a night owl. I wake up with the kids, and the first thing I do is check my email, so I can at least calm my mind. The difficulty of a global job is that you’re always waking up to tons of emails, because everybody else in Europe has been working for hours. I stay up pretty late, and I know that’s not really an existential tip, but I try really hard to stop as close to 5:00 as possible, to get home and see the boys. My sons are five and one, so they go to bed really early.

I didn’t always do this correctly, and I’ve made mistakes in terms of balancing work and family, but I realized that stopping work to spend that precious two and a half hours with the boys before they have to go to bed is of the absolute utmost importance. When I took this role, that was something that I shared with my boss. That time is so precious and so protected, but it wasn’t always an easy road to be able to be confident enough to say that. I would sacrifice family time to try to get ahead. I didn’t want to be the mom. I think it’s protecting that time, but then after they go to bed, that’s when the workout gets in, that’s when the laptop reopens. It’s just really trying to figure out how I can use the most of my day.

I will also say that I am so incredibly lucky to have a partner in my husband who is a 50/50 partner. He is a hands-on dad. He helps with everything. There is no, “You do that because you’re the mom, and I do this because I’m the man, or I’m the dad.” We have a 50/50 split, and I wouldn’t survive without that, and I wouldn’t survive without the support of my friends and family. I know that I have a really tight but good network of people that help, and so when I need it, I have that. If I didn’t have it, I couldn’t do anything that I’ve done.

Let’s unpack a couple of things there. Do you do time blocking consciously? What I mean by that is, if it’s Monday morning, you are like, “I know what the week looks like,” and I know you have kids, so that’s obviously going to throw curve walls. Are you like, “Monday morning? Okay, I know that I’m exercising from 8:00 to 9:00?” Or, is it more ad hoc, where it’s like, “Okay, I have time, I’ll go do it now?” I’m curious to know the tactical approach to how you manage.

I do try to do that, and I do think it helps me mentally, but I will say that if I plan out the week, and I’m like, “These days, I’m going to run X time, or workout this time, or go to a workout class, or this time is for X, Y, Z,” unless it’s a doctor’s appointment, it has to be flexible. I do think it helps me to plan out my goal, but I don’t think you can be too rigid on it, at least in my experience. There may be a meeting that pops up, that’s like, “If we don’t get it done this week, it’s going to delay it to a detrimental effect.” I have to be flexible.

I do think looking out and trying to plan out, especially with having kids, because if I can say, “Ryan,” my husband, “If I want to work out these nights, is that cool? You can do this, and I can do that.” We have to divide and conquer, but also being flexible. It helps me to plan out week by week, but that’s with a big caveat that says I’m pretty much living day to day.

Fair. It sounds like you have a non-negotiable in your life now when it comes to that two hour window for your kids. You said something really interesting, but also something that men don’t go through, and that’s paraphrasing what you said, but you’re like, “I felt like I might be judged in the workplace if I’m that mom.”

Yeah.

How did you get past that, and say, “You know what? I don’t care. I’m a mom and husband first, then a professional.”

Well, to be totally honest, I don’t think I’m totally past it.

Fair.

I still think I have that in the back of my head, which my boss knows, and he thinks I’m crazy. I try to be open with it. I have an all-female team, and I don’t want them to feel that way when they get to that phase in their life, should they so choose. I think that it took almost testing the waters, but also seeing other successful women make it a point to do that. Now, I think that some people think, “If men do it,” for example, I’ve had bosses or colleagues who would say, “I’m leaving at 4:00 today because I’m going to my kids’ softball practice.” While I think that’s great, and they should totally do that, I don’t think that necessarily made it easier for me to do it.

I still felt like, “I’ve got to work twice as hard because people will judge me.” I used to never have pictures of my kids around in my office, because I thought, “I don’t want people to look at me that way.” I think one way I got over it was verbalizing it, talking to my bosses and sharing that I had those fears, once I had that relationship. Them debunking that helped me realize that I had a great leadership and mentorship in my life, and in my career.

I also think, as of two weeks ago, Hines is now run by a female with a young child, with another on the way. Our co-CEO, Laura Hines-Pierce, I think also leads by example, and that helps pave the way for people. Even though I’m further along in my career than others, that helps me feel more confident in making my decisions, too. She makes it a very strong point that she’s taking her full maternity leave, that she makes time for her family, and I think that helps pave the way, too. I don’t think I’m totally over it, but I’m trying to be levelheaded about it, and realize that some of those things may just be in my head, and deeply ingrained in me, but aren’t necessarily a stigma anymore, if that makes sense.

It does, and I think the badge of honor has changed. There’s the Forbes articles that you reference, “All the successful people wake up at 4:00 AM.” No they don’t. The badge of honor, work X amount of hours per day, I think has been replaced by work hard, but then also be able to have that time blocking. I’m trying to get better at it myself. This Saturday I blocked off six hours in the afternoon to do nothing, and it felt so good. I just hope I adhere to that.

Yeah, correct.

It’s very easy to block off time, but to actually adhere to it… with my fiance, I told her, “When I schedule my weeks, I’m going to block off time to relax.”

She was like, “It’s about time,” because that obviously impacts everything around you also, by not doing yourself that service. Your career and all your accomplishments speak for themselves, but what people probably don’t see by visiting a LinkedIn profile or reading an article about you, if you’re self-aware enough, and I’m sure you are, what are those one, two, or three traits that you’re like, “That’s why I’m successful?” It’s always weird for one to call themselves successful, so those are my words. Help us understand, if you look back on your career, and be like “It was those three things.”

Number one would be grit, or determination, and just a willingness to do whatever I needed to do to get it done. Pulling up my sleeves and not saying, “Oh well, that’s not part of my role,” or, “That’s not in my job title,” or whatever it may be. That’s just never been in my mentality, and I think that is one that has allowed me to excel and shine in places, where people are like, “Wow, she’s willing just to do whatever she has to do to get it done.” I think probably flexibility too, and those maybe go hand in hand, but being able to adapt, and when things don’t go my way, or they change, or whatever it may be, being able to pivot and not pause, or freeze, I think really has been an important thing that’s helped me get ahead.

What I hear from my bosses, my leadership, is having a high EQ and just being able to read a room, adapt. You can go into a meeting, you can have your presentation, but if it’s not landing, you need to be able to adapt, and you need to be able to read the room, and see what’s important to them. If they lean into a certain topic, you lean in too. Just being self-aware, understanding my flaws, and understanding where I need to improve, I think that EQ has been something that has allowed me to excel.

Going back to the other point of discussion, just for the team listening, and for anybody listening, especially for the team, I am telling you, block off time for yourself. We’ve got to go to work, and we’re going to work really hard, but you’ve got to block that time, like Whitney and I do, and not have things be so rigid. On your last messaging and discussion items there, the thing that comes to me is you likely gave your leaders peace of mind, where it’s like, “She’s got it. She’ll figure it out.” If you think about some of your team members that you lead, they probably give you peace of mind.

Yes.

That way, you’re clearing a path for their careers. I very much see that as my responsibility, hedging all the trees so that they can walk down this path, and be the one that takes the bullet if something goes bad. In return we get that peace of mind. Pivotal moments in your career, people or moments where you just broke through, there was that tipping point, can you recount anything or anyone? If it’s an individual, what did they do?

Okay, so I have a person and then I have a moment.

Perfect.

I interned at this private equity firm in high school, here in Houston. I did not learn a damn thing about private equity.

Hold on a second. Who works in private equity in high school?

Well, I didn’t learn anything about private equity, but I always just wanted to be successful, whatever that means. I don’t think I’ve achieved it, but I was like, “Okay, if I just start working as soon as I can, that’s what’s going to get me there.” I started interning there.

I was washing dishes in high school, but continue.

Do what?

I was washing dishes in high school, but continue with your private equity story at 16. We’re listening, continue.

The administrative assistant was really who I reported to at this internship, so you can see how close to the private equity I actually was. His attention to detail and follow through was just unparalleled, and that experience was the biggest thing I gleaned from that internship. This was a while ago, so we still printed things out. I would just watch the way he would print out the itinerary for the CEO and put it in a beautiful folder, and make sure every step of the way was accounted for. Just seeing that, the way that he was so meticulous to make sure that his boss was in line, and successful, the way that he anticipated needs, that really struck me, and is something that I think I’ve carried with me throughout my whole career, always trying to think ahead, always take the next step. Even something as simple as attaching an Excel, checking, is it aligned? Is the font the same? Could you have maybe put a box around something?

It’s so tiny, but I just think that those things make such a big difference as the person then opening that Excel. I think he taught me to make sure that you don’t just do what you need to do, you do what you need to do plus one, and that was really huge for me.

The moment was when my first son Jack was born. When I went back to work, it was the darkest time in my life. I couldn’t find my footing, and I wanted to be home, but I didn’t want to give up my career. I didn’t feel like I could just take a year off and start again, and I was miserable. I didn’t like the childcare we had set up, and it was awful. That moment was a moment for me that I really just dug in and looked at my situation, and turned that pain that I was feeling, and that uncertainty into motivation. Being able to channel that, and make that pivot, and make that change, it just gave me a different confidence.

It was a really painful and difficult time, as it is for so many women going back, and I was incredibly lucky that I had three months paid maternity leave to do that. It’s funny, because I know you’re in Canada, where three months paid maternity leave is a joke, but for me in the U.S., I’m extremely lucky to have had that. It wasn’t a good time, and so rather than just lose it and crumble, I was able to really pick myself up and turn it around. From that point forward, I really think that’s when my career took a turn, and just accelerated. It was a painful time, but I had a new motivation, and a new reason, and it gave me all the more energy to, again, channel that pain into motivation.

The attention to detail, I’m happy you brought that up, because I was 21, and my mentor at the time, Patrick Lewis, went through a slide deck that I was building for this senior presentation, and just tore it apart. Not on the data, not on what I was communicating, it was visually how I was communicating, to your point, the font, punctuation. More recently, my current mentors, there’s no formal relationship, but Alim and Steve, same thing. There’s a common theme with individuals who excel in their attention to detail. I was thinking about, “Why is this the case?”

For me, it’s just accuracy, and just knowing that things are buttoned up, because that’s a reflection of everything that they’re likely going to do. If I see something, I don’t question it, and it goes back to that peace of mind when somebody gives me something. If they have that reputation for everything being buttoned up, it’s like, “It’s from her, it’s from him? I’m good. I’ll look at it, but I don’t have to spend a lot of time putting it under a microscope, because they’ve built that reputation.”

I was going to ask my last question in a certain way, and I scrapped it. I was going to ask it in the way, what advice do you have for women in the workplace? I think that’s part of the problem. Why are we propping women up to give advice to women? Immediately, you’ve put them in a box together, whereas, just give advice. I don’t care about who it’s from. Alien, female, male, transgendered, I just don’t care.

Yeah.

I’m just going to ask the question more broadly. What advice do you have in building a career in the workplace? I know that’s a loaded question, so if there’s one thing that you would tell your younger self, “Focus on this.”

I would say, don’t let the noise drown out the signal. Don’t let all of the BS of the world around you, the competitiveness, what he’s doing, what she’s doing, eat away at you, and distract you. Keep your eyes pointed forward, and figure out what you as a person need to reach whatever goal you want, because I think that there’s so much noise that can distract us from anything in life. That’s just a piece of advice that my mentor gave me, and I have always really stuck with it. I got it late in life, but it was just not letting the noise distract you from what you really want, and not letting what you want get in the way of who you are. Always staying true to your core, what you know is right, stand up for what is right even when it doesn’t feel good. I think that those things, while they may not immediately reap a reward long-term, they will serve you very well.

Only the paranoid survive.

Only the paranoid survive. Oh my gosh, how could I even forget it? I bought a book about that. That is my motto. That is my life motto. No one had put it into words until I met you. That’s part of that grit, that determination, and a follow through, buttoning up. You’re like, “If I don’t do it perfectly, somebody else is going to come along and do it.”

Yeah.

“Will I have a job tomorrow? I don’t know.” That’s how I wake up every day. “Ugh, am I going to get fired?”

I learned that from Howard Schultz, who’s a professional hero of mine. I’m like, “I’m taking this,” and I’m obviously going to credit the individual that I first heard it from. The perfection comes from Bob Iger, who’s the former CEO of Disney, and he said something, I’m paraphrasing, I hope I get it right, but he said, “Perfection’s just not settling for mediocrity.” I was like, “Ugh,” one of those ones that you hear somebody say something, and you’re just like, “What did that person just say?” It just takes home. That’s tombstone-worthy,

I don’t want to forget this one. Don’t stay under a bad boss.

Oh my goodness, yeah.

I have done that, and it sucks. You’ve got to have the grit, and stick through things. Everything’s not perfect all the time. If you don’t have a boss who is including you in meetings, or at least is transparent about what’s going on, is teaching you things, is inspiring you, if you don’t look up the ladder and say, “I want to be them,” you’ve got to go. You’ve got to move. I think that my career stalled for a good amount of time because I didn’t just say, “Wait, this guy just sucks, and I need to move on.” I was like, “No, I’m going to stick with it. I’m going to do it.” Sometimes the grit maybe can be stubbornness, but that was the other thing I was thinking. You can’t be job happy and move around too much, but don’t stick with someone who doesn’t have your best interests at heart.

Absolutely, and on the leader, just because you get that vice President’s title doesn’t mean your development stops. If anything, it needs to be accelerated. For the team member who is being led by the leader, reframing what that relationship looks like… for example, sometimes individuals might be too timid to say, “Hey, can I be included in those meetings?”

Yeah.

Ask.

Yeah.

As long as what you’re asking for is ethical, just ask. Worst case scenario is going to be, “Not now, but soon,” or whatever. If enough people are asking for said thing, then it’s on the leader to make that happen. Just be curious. I think that’s the root cause, being curious, asking questions, asking to be included and so forth, as a leader, you love that. You love your team members always trying to get more intimate with the business, and understanding this and that. It’s wide-eyed professionals, or anybody, the ones that often succeed ask the best questions.

Whitney, thank you for your time.

Of course.

I know you have a career to manage, and a family to love and adhere to, so I will let you go. Do I have your permission to have team members reach out to you if they have a question via email?

Yeah. Oh my gosh, of course.

If you get flooded, let me know, and I’ll save your inbox.

I’m an open book, I am so happy to talk with anyone.

Whitney Burns, everybody. Thank you so much.

Thank you. I appreciate it.